<div><br></div>Hi Matthew,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for trying to get this discussion going again. <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Matthew Fluet <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:matthew.fluet@gmail.com">matthew.fluet@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
It occurs to me that something between self-hosting and using a<br>
software hosting service is to self-host a software hosting service.<br>
That is, run a virtual machine instance on which one installs an<br>
instance of GForge (<a href="http://gforge.org/gf/" target="_blank">http://gforge.org/gf/</a>) or FusionForge<br>
(<a href="https://fusionforge.org/" target="_blank">https://fusionforge.org/</a>). The (hoped for) reduced administration<br>
comes from the fact that the forge installation should handle all of<br>
the dependencies on sub-services (web, mailman, VCSs). But, still,<br>
some non-trivial administration overhead. Also, it requires someone<br>
to administer updates to the forge installation, whereas with a<br>
software hosting service, such service upgrades would be provided.<br>
So, not clear to me whether or not it would be a win. </blockquote><div><br></div><div>Self-hosting a forge is an interesting idea. From a quick first look, the concern I would have with that approach would be that the forge tries to be all things to all people. This could potentially make it hard to both administer and to use. For example, go to <a href="http://fusionforge.org">fusionforge.org</a> and click projects. You get a page with 24 topic links and all but one are empty. I would guess that you could configure this, but with so many moving parts (svn, bug tracking, project management, wiki, news, mailing lists, ...) it seems like installation and configuration could be a challenge. But, it may all just work out of the box, I have no experience with any of these forges so I don't really know. </div>
<div><br></div><div>I know you were asking for new ideas :), but just to get a little more specific on the hosted approach I proposed before. The current mlton infrastructure provides svn, mailman, web (through a wiki). I think you have mentioned on the list that bug tracking would be nice to add. I did a little web searching and found:</div>
<div><br></div><div><a href="http://xp-dev.com">xp-dev.com</a> - they have a $5 per month plan that gives you Subversion hosting, unlimited repositories and users, Trac hosting for bug tracking integrated with Subversion, backups, ... You also get a web interface for setting up new repositories (or importing existing ones) and managing users, access control, etc. </div>
<div><br></div><div><a href="http://dreamhost.com">dreamhost.com</a> - offers a $7 per month shared hosting plan that offers email, unlimited Mailman hosting, web hosting. Initially I was just looking for the Mailman hosting, but it might make sense to host the actual website under this also. They support Wordpress and give shell access. For and extra $15 per month you can upgrade this to a VPS that gives you full root access, but they still manage the services such as Mailman. </div>
<div><br></div><div>I'm not saying that these particular companies would necessarily be the ones to go with (I have never used either), but I just wanted to point out that for as little as $12 per month you can outsource the installation and maintenance of these services to someone else. </div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Though, it might fit well with a proposed "Standard ML Foundation", though I'm<br>
still unclear about the financials/logics of such an arrangement.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I am not an expert, but my understanding is that a "nonprofit" is just a corporation that has a special tax status. So formation would require the creation of a corporation and then applying for special tax status. Forming a US corporation requires the creation of some documents (articles of incorporation, bylaws, ...) and filing them with a state. Getting the special tax status requires some filings with the IRS. An attorney and probably an accountant would probably need to be involved to make sure everything gets set up properly. So there would be a non-trivial amount of work and money (my guess would be about $1000, but that is just a guess) to get it up and running. </div>
</div><div><br></div>Once it is up and running, there would need to be a Board of Directors elected. The Board would meet maybe 4 times per year. The board would appoint officers to manage day-to-day operations. I would imagine that, at least initially, both the board and officers would be volunteer positions. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Once things were up and running companies like ours or individuals could make tax-deductible donations to the foundation to fund operations. The Foundation could then purchase services such as those described above to provide infrastructure for SML-related projects. <br>
<br></div><div>One possibility would be to model a "Standard ML Foundation" on the Apache Foundation. They describe how that works here:</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html">http://apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html</a></div>
<div><br></div><div><a href="http://apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html"></a>They have members (analogous to shareholders in a standard corporation) who elect the board from the members. </div><div><br></div><div>If there were enough interest, I would be willing to take on some of the leg work such as firming up a proposal for how it would work, drafting bylaws, interfacing with the lawyer. I would propose we try to draft you Matthew to serve on the Board. You would be involved in the decisions, but, someone such as me or other volunteers could take on the extra logistical tasks. If we are aiming for this to be an SML-centered organization (as opposed to just Mlton), we would probably want to try to get buy-in from the other major compilers (e.g. sml-nj) and draft someone from those ranks to also serve on the initial board. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Before moving forward, we'd probably want to make sure we have enough in "pledges" to cover the startup costs plus five years of operation as Stephen set as the goal at the outset of the thread. Given that none of the infrastructure options we are discussing are that expensive, I would guess that we should be able to do that. Reactive Systems would certainly support it and Gergely has also expressed some willingness. Other companies who use SML might also be willing to contribute. </div>
<div><br></div><div>I realize that the "Foundation" approach is a rather big hammer for the problem of just providing infrastructure for mlton, so I you guys decide to not go that route we could probably find a different way for us to sponsor some of the infrastructure if you decide to go with some paid-services. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Steve</div><div><br>-- <br>Steve Sims<br>Chief Executive Officer - Reactive Systems, Inc.<br>Email: <a href="mailto:sims@reactive-systems.com">sims@reactive-systems.com</a><br>Phone: (+1) 919-324-3507 ext 101 <br>
Web: <a href="http://www.reactive-systems.com/">http://www.reactive-systems.com/</a><br><br><br>
</div>